smerchly Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I'm not an expert on the inner workings of spinning reels and I have a few rear drag reels which I can say I do not like the drag system as well as my better quality front drag reels . I have had my two Shimano 2500 rear drag reels freeze up in cold weather . I think most anglers prefer the front drags . One of my reels has both .....the bait runner used for carp . One would think it must be more complicated , but they are not expensive ....about $60 -$80 for an average one . Going back many years ago , the very simple Cardinal reels had a rear drag and proved to be a great little reel . Any input here from guys who have a better understanding of drag systems ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauly Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 The Shimano may be freezing up, literally. My front drag Shimano's from years past had cheap felt washers that froze when water/moisture got in. The one reel actually had chunks of felt coming out of the drag housing of the spool. Rear drags do not necessarily have the bigger surface area to perform at their best as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffman Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I've always preferred front drag reels because I think they are smoother. In cold weather reels with at most 5 BB work best. I have a 10 bb Quantum that doesn't preform well in cold weather. I checked with Aikmans to see if they had a cure and he told me all reels with that many BB aren't designed to be fished in winter and suggested to find a reel with 3 BB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rile Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 From my understanding the quality of the drag has nothing to do with it being front or rear, that is only where it is adjusted from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerchly Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 You could be right rile , my 2500 Sedona has a push button pop off spool which doesn't allow adjustment from the front ....but somewhere in the reel the drag will not adjust when it's close to zero C. The drag wheel will turn but the drag tension doesn't change ....maybe replace the old grease with hot sauce . I suppose the casting type reels don't have this problem . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deetch Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I may be wrong in saying this but you get what you pay for. If you buy a front drag or rear drag in my opinion there isn't much difference. But if you compare an expensive front drag to an inexpensive rear drag than you may think the front drag is smoother, like most everything in life you get what you pay for. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishfight Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Front Drag reel are less heavier than Rear Drag reel. Just like front wheel drive vehicle, there seem to be slightly more drag control on the front wheel drag system compared to rear reel drag system. Also check your metal washer to ensure they are not semi warp, which is not visible to the naked eye or to touch. To check for potential warp-age, paint the metal washer with a marker, then use smooth sandpaper and sand them, you will notice then if there are uneven section. I was reading about carbontex washer, they are the best and create consistent smooth drag, but pricey IMO. they even come in DIY sheet of 8"x11" size. I have been searching every so often for less pricey Carbontex sheet, so far, no luck! In the mean time , In the mean time, I have used thin geunine leather , cut out from my old damaged wallet, the colored painted side need to be sanded down to look like felt, I add a touch of sewing machine oil, the improvised washer seemed to work for most normal Ontario fishing application. I have never used my reel on saltwater to catch big fish, with that kind of fishing, the washer might heat up fast and cease up. So most anglers suggest Carbontex Washer. I tried washing the old original felt with water and soup, they expanded way too much , and never the same again. So I was forced to replace them with Leather. I also read on line that some automotive gasket would work . You can read more on Carbontex washer here http://www.downriggershop.com.au/carbontex-drag-washers.html More interesting read on Drag washer material http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/538935-your-preference-in-drag-washers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frog088 Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Rear drags do not necessarily have the bigger surface area to perform at their best as well. This. The more surface area a drag washer has the more clamping force (drag tension) it can exert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frog088 Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Front Drag reel are less heavier than Rear Drag reel. Just like front wheel drive vehicle, there seem to be slightly more drag control on the front wheel drag system compared to rear reel drag system. Also check your metal washer to ensure they are not semi warp, which is not visible to the naked eye or to touch. To check for potential warp-age, paint the metal washer with a marker, then use smooth sandpaper and sand them, you will notice then if there are uneven section. I was reading about carbontex washer, they are the best and create consistent smooth drag, but pricey IMO. they even come in DIY sheet of 8"x11" size. I have been searching every so often for less pricey Carbontex sheet, so far, no luck! In the mean time , In the mean time, I have used thin geunine leather , cut out from my old damaged wallet, the colored painted side need to be sanded down to look like felt, I add a touch of sewing machine oil, the improvised washer seemed to work for most normal Ontario fishing application. I have never used my reel on saltwater to catch big fish, with that kind of fishing, the washer might heat up fast and cease up. So most anglers suggest Carbontex Washer. I tried washing the old original felt with water and soup, they expanded way too much , and never the same again. So I was forced to replace them with Leather. I also read on line that some automotive gasket would work . You can read more on Carbontex washer here http://www.downriggershop.com.au/carbontex-drag-washers.html More interesting read on Drag washer material http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/538935-your-preference-in-drag-washers/ Carbontex drag washers are worth the money IMO. They allow stronger clamping force than felt, and can be used maintenance free if you like (ie dry, no lubricant). Personally use a verrrrry light coat of cal's drag grease on mine. I have upgraded all of my spinning reels with carbontex. Should come from the factory with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdog Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Front drag all the way. I love my Shimano spinning reels...haven't found a drag as smooth, yet. As far as rear drag vs front drag while fighting a fish, it shouldn't be an issue. You can adjust your drag from the front just as easy as from the back. You get used to it pretty quick. Most drag systems are pretty decent - mid level reels are pretty good these days. Cheap reels have "choppy", "sticky" drags and aren't very precise, you might as well have OFF and ON. On a side note, you can find out how much tension you have on a drag by using a scale to measure it. (I will now refer to the bend in the rod as "The Battle Curve") I may be wrong in saying this but you get what you pay for. If you buy a front drag or rear drag in my opinion there isn't much difference. But if you compare an expensive front drag to an inexpensive rear drag than you may think the front drag is smoother, like most everything in life you get what you pay for. Just my 2 cents. Huge difference. Most rear drags will allow you to adjust your tension from 1 to 1.5 to 2 to 2.5 to 3 to 3.5, etc through the drag tension system. A front drag will let you adjust 1 to 1.1 to 1.2 to 1.3 to 1.4 to 1.5...and so on. Both drags will give you the same maximum tension, but the front drag will allow you to dial in the drag more precisely, to suit almost any situation. You could be right rile , my 2500 Sedona has a push button pop off spool which doesn't allow adjustment from the front ....but somewhere in the reel the drag will not adjust when it's close to zero C. The drag wheel will turn but the drag tension doesn't change ....maybe replace the old grease with hot sauce . I suppose the casting type reels don't have this problem . Casting reels have there own issues. They use a compressed paper-fibre drag washer in most reels. They usually break when you remove them to clean a reel...kind of a giant pain in the A. Casting drags aren't as smooth as spinning drags...carbontex washers are a nice upgrade for casters because of the heavy drag pressure for techniques like flipping and pitching with heavy line and casters are generally used for larger game. Carbontex doesn't compress like felt or leather - over time the felt stays compressed and you lose drag tension. Carontex washers are far more tolerant to heat, they are good for situations where fish will go on long, screaming runs. Salmon, steelie fishing in the river, sure change them. Perch, bass, panfish, the felt washers are just as good and will stand up to those situations. Most saltwater guys will upgrade to carbontex for big fish like shark, marlin or tuna, where "normal" washers will literally, burn out. Carbontex isn't necessary for most fishing situations. The Shimano may be freezing up, literally. My front drag Shimano's from years past had cheap felt washers that froze when water/moisture got in. The one reel actually had chunks of felt coming out of the drag housing of the spool. Rear drags do not necessarily have the bigger surface area to perform at their best as well. Your drag could be freezing because the felt washers may be "dry". They usually have a small amount of grease on them. Don't grease the felt, you grease the metal washers...a small amount on your fingers and just rub the metal washer between your fingers. If they do freeze, I would imagine the felt would freeze to the metal and when the drag does engage, the frozen felt tears away from the metal washer and once the friction warms up the felt, it rolls up and eventually works its way out of the spool. This will probably destroy the remaining washers, just like getting sand or dust in the reel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerchly Posted December 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Got to agree on the Shimano reel drags . My Stradic 4000 and Symetre 4000 have very smooth drags ....although the Symetre drag is tighter unless I back it off almost a full turn . I have an old Pinnacle spinning reel with a very good drag . It seems the technology on drags hasn't changed much over the years. The carbontex looks like great material for washers . Great info here ! I'm 72 years old and still learning new things everyday . I also like to experiment with new baits and rigs that I "dreamed" up in the middle of the night ! . Keep it coming ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron4blues Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 I don't use a spinning reel often. But the best spinning reel I ever had was a D.A.M. Quick 330. It had a push button release for the spool and a front drag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerchly Posted December 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 I don't use a spinning reel often. But the best spinning reel I ever had was a D.A.M. Quick 330. It had a push button release for the spool and a front drag. I used my Quick 440 this year for carp fishing . The drag works fine . I still have my 330 and it is also in good working order ....heavy reels ,but well built . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauly Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 I have never encountered a situation where I needed a rear drag. It is not an issue to use a front drag. Nothing gets in the way etc. If you need a free spool function like a bait runner, just loosen your front drag. Tighten up when needed to set the hook. I also open the bail while I tighten the drag if I need the fish to run. An issue might arise where a fish feels a difference in tension and that is where constant even pressure of a bait runner comes in handy. I only know if 1 or 2 species that will drop a bait due to tension change and they are in salt. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerchly Posted December 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Before I bought a bait runner reel I just loosened off the drag on my Symetre . When a carp hit suddenly while my eyes were elsewhere , the carp peeled off 50' of line before I got my hands on the rod and tightened up the drag . I wanted to try a bait runner reel to compare , using the back drag for that initial hit , especially when using a bolt rig . What I like about this reel is the front drag is already set at a tension that matches the rod and line I'm using .....very little adjustment needed after the hook up , and the line always remains taut (no slack) . I use this reel specifically for carp only ......but I could also see using it for pike (bottom fishing from shore) . Just for the record ....I have had more luck with the Symetre using an egg sinker rig and drag set lightly .....got me my biggest carp (30#) . That gave those washers a good workout ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron4blues Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 I used my Quick 440 this year for carp fishing . The drag works fine . I still have my 330 and it is also in good working order ....heavy reels ,but well built I don't think I've ever had a spinning reel with a faster retrieve either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerchly Posted December 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 The 330 is about 5 to 1 coach . D.A.M. , a German company, has been in business for 125 years . ....a little history on this reel ...... http://www.mudah.my/Vintage+DAM+Quick+330+Made+in+Germany-13377847.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauly Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 If anybody finds a DAM 5001 let me know. Very tough reel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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